Author Topic: Was it really genocide?  (Read 4887 times)

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rote zora

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2012, 20:57:18 PM »
Thank you for your kind input, Riney. :-)
This war is a very complex issue as it involved several nations that lived under one roof for a long time and although I've already outlined some important facts, this thread could get quite lenghty.

rote zora

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2012, 21:36:42 PM »
P.S. When I have some spare time, I'll write an article which puts into context some very interesting facts I gathered over the years. It's about Yugoslavian, Croatian and German intel agencies, assassinations and the war which followed. Everything is well documented: verdict with witness reports, statements from the German BND, etc.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 21:45:49 PM by rote zora »

Offline Belle_R

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 03:36:27 AM »
Hey guys, first off sorry for not replying sooner- unfortunately my dad is very sick and has been taken to ICU so been spending a lot of time there - reality of life can't do much but at least be there

I will do my best to answer any of your questions, at times I do apologies if none of it makes sense, I suppose it's one of those things you had to be there, but be glad you weren't. A lot of my oppinion and my views about the war do not have any documents that I can share with you or a link that I could refer you to. It is my own observation and experience.

You are right the war did start in Croatia in Vukovar - however when you say that it's predominently a country of ppl with Catholic religion - now it is. In the 1989 , 1990, 1991 it was not. We were all communists. Until May 1979 we were under the president Jospi Broz Tito, religion was something that was not allowed publicly, We had our mosques, catholic churches, orthodox churches, temples - you were allowed to attend the places of worship and practice religion there, Easter, Christmas, Orthodox Easter, Orthodox Vhristmas , Ramadan and Eid were national celebrations rather than religious. Nobody in former Yugoslavia was tought religion at school and all our countries consisted of all religions and nationalities. Now in saying that I might sound very naive and stupid but this is the way that I was raised and majority of the people that I know were raised that way.However history has shown us some were raised differently and money, religion, power came into the whole play. Croatia wasn't a catholic country, serbia wasn't an orthodox country and over 150 thousand orthodox left Bosnia and moved to Serbia.
I hope this made some sense as I said some of it is really hard to understand. Also Former Yugoslavia did not just consist of Bosnia, Serbia and Croatia. We had many more countries that after our president Tito died and some dickheads came into power - those other countries such as Macedonia realized what was going to happen and becamse independant countries that you now know. Before the fall of Former Yugoslavia not a lot of ppl knew of Kosovo, Alabania or Montenegro - they were refered to as Yugoslavia, Bosnia was not known in the world as Bosnia, it was known as a province of Yugoslavia. 

When I say contract killing - It is not an official term that has been used worldwide, it is not something that has been officially delcared - this is what I refer it to. Call it whatever you want it was a mass murder on such a large scale that was funded by predominantely USA , and that is not to say that there wasn't support from all other allies of the USA. As long as the Serbs played by the USA's rules they were safe, they were allowed to do what ever they wanted - the moment they did not follow the orders of the USA and stayed cleared of the areas where ( by this time now the country has been split up, religion and nationalities became important and people scatered to the parts where they felt safe and is now known as mainly Muslim land, Orthodox land or Catholic land ) they weren't suppose to attack as the majority of the population was Jewish - USA bombed Blegrade . Also please note when I say Serbs - I do not refer to the entire nation of Serbia or its citizents I refer to the monsters that were from Serbia were orthodox and we actually call them Cetinici. However there is no term in the English language to translate or descirbe the word Cetnik so I have to refer to them as Serbs which is unfair on the normal part of the population .

See in order to understand the war in Bosnia you need to go way back into the history. There were several different agendas for the war in Bosnia, these agendas came from all different sides of the world. Serbs had their own agenda, USA had their own, UK had their own and so on .... they came together to form one big large army with weapons to attack innocent people that had no way of defending them selves. Again I will try to clarify this.

Serbs and Bosnian as well as the Croats had their own little armys, some supported Hitler in the WW2, our Partizan's which was the Tito's army was against it. For many years before the war in Bosnia there was a deep conflict that was kept under control by our president Tito between the three nations as a result of WW2, apart from that there is the whole issue of the land ( going back into the Turk and AustrioHugry times). The smart politicians used those disputes that happened centuries ago to fuel the fire, unfortunatelly not a lot of ppl in former Yugoslavia were very educated ( again my personal oppinion as they allowed to be led to a self destruction) they were easily led, in a country where eveyrone is suppose to be equal there is always someone that wants more. They used the technique of bringing crap from History which had nothing to do with the people at the time and use it against one another, used it to create hatered between neighbours, between friends until they eventually became enemies ready to kill or be killed.
USA in all this needed to disable as many Muslim countries as possible in order to achieve the attack on Baghdad and Iraq and become the sole provider of oil, petrol, poppy seed ( heroin) in the world. This has been attempted by the USA various times before. Bosnia did have a large number of Muslim population however until the war in Bosnia those people considered them selves Yugoslavs and religion never played a part in their life. See whilst the USA did not know that about the people in Bosnia that religion made no difference to them they feared that we had a similar culture to the Middle East and if someone attacked what we considered to be relation to us we would come to their aid. In order to prevent that they had to disable our army - well Bosnia did't have an army we had our national Yugoslav army which was based in Belgrade the capital of Serbia and majority of our weapons were there. Bosnia formed an army when they attacked and those were street thugs, our criminals that had some guns, access to some contacts on the black market as that's the life they lived before and that was our army, our army were 15 year old boys making home made dinamyte and strap it onto them selves kiss their families goodbye and throw them selves under the tanks in order to prevent them from entering our capital Sarajevo. That was our army - USA really had something to fear.
Reason that Croatia was attacked first, is that Croatia declared it's independance in 1990 and by 1991 had more resources than Bosnia which was still a part of Yugoslavia ( which by this time consisited of 4 countries ( Bosnia, Serbia, Montenegro and Albania) - they had to take out a country that would be able to assist their neighbours. When Croatia realized what was going to happen they got their military ready, they even helped many Bosnians escape and fought side by side against the Serbs, but they had more resources than us - and if all their resources were focused on helping us - well I hope you get the drift - prevent help by attacking the country that can help so they can't help as they need to defend them selves.
As I said it is very comlicated and very simple at the same time. But hard to understand if you're watching it from outside. I am now married to an Australian a wonderful man and we have two beautiful children. I have been married to my husband 10 years and even now I sometimes find it difficult to explain some things. I teach my children of the evil that is out there and that the only reason for all the mean things that happen in the world is hatered. The only way to defeat it is not to hate not to be affraid of someone because they are different from you, at the end we are all human, we are all born and we will all die. Some have different beliefs from me - that does not make me right or them wrong - it makes us human.
I really hope I have been able to clarify things a bit more for all you and please feel free to ask anything and please know that even though everything that I had been through was horrible , would not wish it on anyone but I still have an open mind and respect everyone's oppinion. If I have offended anybody by refering to the monsters as Serbs again I am sorry but the English language has not inveted a word for them ( they might but I do not know it) .

Offline Belle_R

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2012, 04:12:44 AM »
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunting_Party_(2007_film) - have a look if you can dowload or get this movie - it will explain a whole heap more about the political side of the USA's involvement , before during and after the war in Bosnia , another good movie to find is Welcome to Sarajevo, In the land of blood and honey, No Man's land, Grbavica ... I also have a whole heap of tapes that I personally filmed from my balcony - I am in the process of moving the tapes onto dvd, once done I will upload

Offline Riney

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2012, 12:01:19 PM »
Welcome back to the discussion Bella_R, and thanks for all of the information. Running out the door right now, but will be back later to continue..... :) 
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" Anais Nin .. and yet we must arm ourselves with fear

Offline Belle_R

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2012, 23:08:17 PM »
It's good to be back :) Not a problem I know how that is, just as I think I have few moments for a post or a read something pops up :) Talk soon

Offline Riney

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Re: Was it really genocide?
« Reply #21 on: October 23, 2012, 00:40:12 AM »
Hello again,

       In reading this thread, I can seriously wonder how all of these complicating facts could ever be simplified. So many different religions and cultures, it is a wonder that all those people were able to come together in the first place instead of not having a war at the start.
       I don't doubt that the US contributed money into any conflict of this world in order to gain some advantage, but I am still trying to find out what the clear advantage would have been for them to pour money into this war. If I could task anyone of you that have taken the time to discuss this difficult topic, I would like to ask further, if you could clarify it further for me. In the simplest terms, what did the US contribute funds to in this war and why? 

ps Belle_R - I am sorry about your loved one- hope all is well.     
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" Anais Nin .. and yet we must arm ourselves with fear