Author Topic: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.  (Read 3044 times)

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Offline MayorOfCydonia

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The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« on: May 16, 2012, 07:31:34 AM »
This is in reference to Episode 5.

Julian Assange focused heavily on the fear in the West of a new Islamic empire or Caliphate in this episode. This isn't worth worrying about in my opinion, because fanatics cause a lot more disunity than unity. The Muslims spent much more time fighting with other Muslims, in Iraq, than they did against the Americans. It's the same thing with Christians too. Christians spend much more time fighting against other Christians than they do against non Christians. People who believe they have the best system will get into conflict with other people who also believe that they have the best system. If you look at Christianity, it's the world's biggest religion, but it couldn't be anymore disunited, that's a good reason to keep religion out of politics.

It's true that Muslims have the same race, religion, language, but they have lots of different tribes, traditions, cultures and rulers and those factors are something that would prevent them coming together into one system, unless it's an empire, like Turkey, ruling over all of them, but that's a more enforced unity. Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Libya show that tribal differences can really prevent national unity and if Muslims have so much trouble creating national unity, then how are they ever going to create a new Islamic empire? I don't see how they could do that. There isn't any major power in the Muslim world that would have the power to invade lots of other countries, like Turkey did and that doesn't include the fact that other non Muslim countries, with better technology, would go up against it and make an empire much more difficult for it. There's no chance in Hell that the Sunnis and the Shiites would ever come together either.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 11:32:47 AM by MayorOfCydonia »

Offline Jerbar

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 09:22:08 AM »
I was thinking the same thing- thinking of how the Sunnis and the Shiites wouldn't even unite in Iraq. Usually in the face of a common enemy - like the occupation of a foreign power, people would put their differences aside and join forces. But the Sunnis and Shiites wouldn't. :-\   

Offline MayorOfCydonia

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 11:30:39 AM »
Yes, they both call America the great Satan, but they seem less concerned with him invading their country, than with their feuds. It shows it's easy to get fanatics to fight with each other as well, that's another reason why there can't be an Islamic empire.

julia

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2012, 02:53:53 AM »
I just don't think uniting religion and state is a good thing. They compared it with Europe but in Europe religion and state have been separated for several centuries now. Religion is a tool for manipulation and for social and political control.

julia

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2012, 06:36:19 AM »
In any case, it's very disturbing to hear how this innocent man was tortured and forced to sign a confession. I thought the interview would reveal more about his experience in Guantanamo but it must be very painful to talk about it. A democratic country should be worried about things like this happening and making sure those responsible are held accountable but Guantanamo is still open ...

Offline Jerbar

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2012, 11:17:28 AM »
Unfortunately juju, Jose Rodriguez - the head of the CIA's Counterterrorism Center at the time of the height of all the torture that goes on at Guantanamo, destroyed an enormous amount of the videos of water boarding and such torture. Eliminating tons of evidence that could have been used to hold those accountable. He said it was to protect the military personnel that performed the torture from retaliation. It is astounding the justification of human rights violations that are allowed in the whole pursuit of terrorist. Justifying torture to combat terrorism is not counter terrorism- it is the proliferation of it. >:(             
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 11:20:21 AM by Jerbar »

julia

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2012, 17:11:08 PM »
I agree Jerbar. You cannot combat terrorism with more terrorism. It doesn't make any sense. They should be smarter than that. Instead they are very primitive.

Offline Jerbar

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2012, 18:14:35 PM »
   I have to say one more thing concerning this. So Rodriguez is of course justifying the destruction of evidence because the threat of retaliation by terrorist later on. But what he has done is eliminated the evidence so it can't be used if ever in the future the US comes to it's senses on the matter and decide to crack down on torture done by our military as a means of collecting information. I do not see it happening in the near future. At best, we can hope for now that it comes to a stop. Most likely that won't happen until they finally close Guantanamo. In the future if any of the victims of torture want to file suit they should start by charging Rodriguez with the destruction of vital evidence. It shouldn't be hard to do- he has only publicly admitted it.     
« Last Edit: May 21, 2012, 18:36:45 PM by Jerbar »

julia

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Re: The threat of a new Islamic empire is overblown.
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 05:26:13 AM »
I think you are spot on Jerbar. There is a long way to go.. but these people (us military) won't go down without a fight. They are completely insane.