Author Topic: The Twitter account?  (Read 67295 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Riney

  • Support Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #60 on: January 17, 2015, 15:18:23 PM »
The forums stand against Assange is quiet clear on twitter, with all of the tweets discussing him aside, there has been an official tweet that has been pinned to the top of the feed for months on end....


    User Actions

The WikiLeaks Forum‏@wikileaks_forum
The #WikiLeaks Forum supports the WikiLeaks cause but dissociates itself clearly from #Assange's lies,smears and media Manipulation #wlsup 

https://twitter.com/wikileaks_forum/status/494977881844764672

  That above all other statements that other forum staff may make while tweeting for the forum, is the basic stand.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" Anais Nin .. and yet we must arm ourselves with fear

Offline kimono

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2015, 17:59:49 PM »
So this is not neutral toward the Assange affair - if the forum stated in its mission that it's neutral, then maybe they have to change the text ?...
It would be clearer for the supporters.

Are they the "enemy" of Assange lies, or just trying to open the debate and let people choose if they want to see the truth or the lies?...
"Les hommes qui ont vécu dans les laboratoires n'imaginent guère que les partis extrêmes" -
"Men who lived in the laboratories can hardly imagine anything else than extreme parties" (Louis Aragon, 1897-1982)

Koyaanisqatsi

  • Guest
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2015, 18:04:01 PM »
the latter

Offline Riney

  • Support Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #63 on: January 19, 2015, 00:14:23 AM »
@Kimono

 I think the confusion is with the distinction between the forum as a place, or the forum as a person (persons). I think of it as neutral because I think of it as a place for discussion. I certainly can see your point that the people tweeting for the forum, tweet things that are not neutral in order to defend the forum.

 When people attack the forum mostly on twitter though, they are usually attacking a person. They are seeking out who ever the owner might be and trying to destroy them because they want to destroy the forum itself.

 All I can say is neutrality died with Assange and the battle for free speech, when it became apparent that his personal needs for fame and money became the priority for him, up and above any ones right to free speech.

 I personally do not mind that the forum took a stand like it did. I am not requiring any staff member or member of the forum to remain neutral at all. To remain neutral in the face of attacks is not only unrealistic, it is restricting peoples rights to the freedom of speech to defend themselves and the forum.

 That official tweet pinned by the forum is a not neutral stance. However, it is not going to stop people from coming to this forum and posting things like.... "I think Julian Assange is the man that can save the world and the only reason he has not already is because the evil corrupt governments that he exposed are now involved in a secret covert operation to keep him detained." No one is going to stop someone from coming here and posting that, it is not going to be deleted. In that respect the forum truly is just a platform for discussion...
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" Anais Nin .. and yet we must arm ourselves with fear

Koyaanisqatsi

  • Guest
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2015, 00:31:08 AM »
 When people attack the forum mostly on twitter though, they are usually attacking a person. They are seeking out who ever the owner might be and trying to destroy them because they want to destroy the forum itself. 

They should know by now that they can't close a Forum. The surge in attacks on Forum / ex-Forum members shows fear and Desperation.The Forum is almost 4 years old and we will be eating lots of cake and Cookies :-)

Offline kimono

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #65 on: January 19, 2015, 09:52:42 AM »
@Kimono

 [...]

 All I can say is neutrality died with Assange and the battle for free speech, when it became apparent that his personal needs for fame and money became the priority for him, up and above any ones right to free speech.


If you think that Assange is so corrupted, why do you think journalists are not raising this question publicly? many journalists interviewed him and nobody asked him.
and why the forum or forum admins are not trying to say this in the media, that he's only interested in money and fame?
why nobody is saying this on TV, public debates?...

If I were you, I would seek an answer. But on one side and the other (wikileaks forum/wikileaks side/journalists side, etc), you see that there's nothing, no aim to come to a real conclusion.
Are they people who can prove that Assange only did all he did only for "fame and money"?...

A tweet from the forum is not enough to prove this. I would like to have more opinions about that.
"Les hommes qui ont vécu dans les laboratoires n'imaginent guère que les partis extrêmes" -
"Men who lived in the laboratories can hardly imagine anything else than extreme parties" (Louis Aragon, 1897-1982)

Koyaanisqatsi

  • Guest
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #66 on: January 19, 2015, 13:13:26 PM »
Quote
"If I were you, I would seek an answer"
[/size]

Thank God you aren't us ! :-)

Offline jujyjuji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #67 on: January 19, 2015, 14:10:58 PM »
...Actually journalists are asking themselves questions about the reliability of  Julian Assange; not all of them laud him. Assange has accused whatever professionist that criticized him, of willing to profit of the situation for personal inrerests (fame, success), starting from The Guardian... Ending with Jemima Khan (his supporter) and the Alex Gibney documentary for now.
He is trying to bully whoever criticizes him.
If he doesn't do it directly, Assange lets that his fans and associate do this.
No need of proof to see that endorsed @shafpatel (owner of Slur) and @cabledrummer (WL cooperator) post priavate info of their critics for revenge.
The idea that the main part of the media and public opinion are pro-Assange is very unilateral. Many media/persons simply don't give a damn of WL and JA, also.
Between the wikileaks supporters  there are big individual differences and people who don't always agree with everything Assange does. Imagine if we include also the WL critics: there are infinite nuances between hard core support or criticism.

The @wikileaks_forum account may express many opinions; it may tweet several posts, including the pro-Assange ones (it often did) when posted here.
The account is clearly run by persons that consider the Assange's attitude of trying to censor WL critics by all the means (including stalking) as Wrong attitude.


But the site of the forum is open to all, including Assange supporters.
Indeed there are and there will be many pro-Assange posts and as even guests now can post, pro-Assange people are able to comment even without being registered (given they generally don't trust the forum, this is a democratic opportunity to debate).

The forum is about WikiLeaks, in general, with leaks, news, pro/contra... It's not called "The Assange Fans Club".

@kimono that you post your pro-WikiLeaks opinions is a good thing, it makes everybody see other sides.
Also on twitter one can "disagree". "I disagree, I think different, ..." etc are all things that happen. One can also unfollow, block, whatever one wants (I'm also blocked: by @wikileaks and all the legion of their "fans").
But in my opinion this should not lead critics to try to smear this site as some sort of "FBI site" just because we don't like the things Assange tweets via @wikileaks or certain of his leaks or the way he uses them.

Asking for proofs is a good thing.
On the other side, anyway, all absorbed in this internet flat litteral world, let's not forget that humans are social because they can guess the motivations of the other posting... not always... but we can, considering in what context the words are put, draw our own conclusions on what is being said.
I'd consider an insult to the human intelligence pretending people to consider the @wikileaks ' tweets only litterally, without asking ourselves what those tweets are meant to say; idem for the @wikileaks_forum tweets.
So let's look for proofs, for confirmation; but at the same time let's also try to understand what the other wanted to say. I know this is subjective. But knowledge is also subjective; it isn't just a serie of data, or we would be computers.
... Certain WL fans only always ask for proofs, but when one asks them "Can you prove that Assange is surely innocent?", they go on the subjective side "He hasn't been charged because he may be fears extradition to the US, he may be has been trapped..." etc. instead of the objective side that he has lost 7 Court appeals and he isn't charged because he refuses questioning.
My point is: IF we are so indulgent and can feel empathy with Julian Assange (because he's a leaker, because he leads a change, etc.), why can't we so easily feel the same empathy with his critics in the moment himself has tried to hurt and censor them? Why do we have to pretend that they show us this or that, when it's Enormously evident the amount of harsh, stalking tweets coming from Assange endorsed supporters that Assange Never did a step to mitigate?


The forum isn't "neutral", nor WikiLeaks and his fans are "neutral" and they are even violent with their words and privacy violations, and they started it before this forum had any problem with the opinions of Assange himself... Also WikiLeaks was supposed to be a bit more neutral given its original manifesto. It isn't at all. It even support extremism. This because of his leader Julian Assange. Should we stay silent? Or it's more correct to take our own responsibility as ex-Assange supporters (my case) of telling that attitude isn't correct?


At least this is my opinion.
Don't retweet it if you don't like it or disagree.
Tell me you disagree. No problem.

Offline Riney

  • Support Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #68 on: January 20, 2015, 01:26:18 AM »
@Kimono

 [...]

 All I can say is neutrality died with Assange and the battle for free speech, when it became apparent that his personal needs for fame and money became the priority for him, up and above any ones right to free speech.


If you think that Assange is so corrupted, why do you think journalists are not raising this question publicly? many journalists interviewed him and nobody asked him.
and why the forum or forum admins are not trying to say this in the media, that he's only interested in money and fame?
why nobody is saying this on TV, public debates?...

If I were you, I would seek an answer. But on one side and the other (wikileaks forum/wikileaks side/journalists side, etc), you see that there's nothing, no aim to come to a real conclusion.
Are they people who can prove that Assange only did all he did only for "fame and money"?...

A tweet from the forum is not enough to prove this. I would like to have more opinions about that.

 Journalist have very limited access to Assange, and when they do get access he demands strict control over the questions that can be asked. There probably will not be an actual statement anywhere that Assange did what he did for fame and money. I am only making my judgement by his actual behaviors...

 Assange asks for donations on a continual basis, he does not give full transparency to how much money he collects. He sent Sarah Harrison to find Ed Snowden to latch on to him and get on a bank roll of Ed, basically to profit by association. Sarah collects a nice paycheck for herself now as the director of the courage fund, which collects money to help aide whistle blowers, namely Ed Snowden himself. Assange got himself listed as one of the lead positions on the board of the courage fund. No one knows for sure how much they profit from this, all of their money collecting is quiet non transparent.

 Going back to the early day of Assange's climb to fame, all the way back to the original release of the Collateral Murder material, Assange's behavior was disgustingly self serving. Right at the time that Chelsea Manning was essentially loosing her grip on life, having just given away a mega ton of government secrets, knowing the devastating effect this was going to have on her life legally and personally....Assange was behaving quiet the opposite. He was busy using his new found fame and fortune to sleep with any hot Swedish women he could get his hands on.

 Think about that @Kimono.... what kind of person would take advantage in this way? Manning was the real whistle blower here, not Assange. Manning put herself into a huge line of fire, and certainly took the bullet. Assange on the other hand used Manning's huge sacrifice to put himself in the lime light, collect lots and lots of money, claimed to protect any whistle blowers, but in the end gave a very minimal amount to Manning's defense. The amount of money that Assange has spent on his own personal defense, against getting out facing sexual assault allegations is absolutely HUGE compared to what he sent to Manning's defense.

 There were other hacktivist that in the early days of WikiLeaks that soon became aware that Assange was interesting in profiting from leaks, to the tune of millions of dollars. Assange himself had a very easy time claiming victim of justice, having a bunch of rich friends contribute a very sizable sum for his bail, only then to violate his bail conditions to have all of those people completely screwed out of their money. Some of those people were not rich, just disillusioned and they lost a ton of money they thought was going to a good cause.

 I could go on about Assange all day @Kimono, but you know what, you can believe what ever you want to believe. It is not my job to prove to you or anybody for that matter about what the true intentions of Assange actually are. I do not think that all facts about anything can be known and stated in some official way in the media, and certainly the media is full of misinformation as well. It is up to each one of us to observe things in our own way, and decide how we want to feel about Assange. I do not care what others believe, I have my own thoughts on the matter. To each is own.

 I am just waiting around to watch Assange go down, and I do believe he will go down, maybe not today, or even tomorrow, but someday he will go down. He is on the road to ruin...
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" Anais Nin .. and yet we must arm ourselves with fear

Offline kimono

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #69 on: January 20, 2015, 11:39:33 AM »
I'm not particularly pro-Assange or pro-Forum (the forum blocked me on Twitter, while I was trying to go further into the debate)

I'm trying to find the truth about all this situation

- on one side, I think the critics are not gooing too far, the forum only posts opinions: in few months, we can see as well that all these rumors are false

- on the other side, the forum could be doing all this in complicity with wikileaks, maybe to obtain from the people to focus on something else, while Wikileaks could be preparing new leaks for example (and they need less attention from the media)...

- on another side, I heard myself supporters saying things wrong or bad about Wikileaks, but at least I had a real opinion from a real person, not from a forum where I don't even know who are those admins...
when 2 ecuadorian or spanish women were talking to me when I was in London in august 2012, they really told me what they saw in front of the embassy, so I can really believe what they told to me...
But here, it's very difficult to believe in those rumors!

I don't like having doubts about something.

Or Assange is OK, or Assange is evil. But not everything at the same time, please.
I think the forum should help the supporters to have a clearer idea and opinion about Wikileaks, but now I think the forum is more about doubts and rumors. I don't like this.
"Les hommes qui ont vécu dans les laboratoires n'imaginent guère que les partis extrêmes" -
"Men who lived in the laboratories can hardly imagine anything else than extreme parties" (Louis Aragon, 1897-1982)

Offline jujyjuji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #70 on: January 20, 2015, 15:03:04 PM »
@Riney " Journalist have very limited access to Assange, and when they do get access he demands strict control over the questions that can be askeed"
Really? I mean, I can imagine one gets informed on what to be asked during an interview, but the interview would be helpful if reflecting the true point of view of the interviewed. How can these "interview" be reliable if the answears are studied before and/or journalists are strictly limited in asking questions? 

@Kimono... that the forum account blocks you isn't a nice sensation (I know how it is).

... guys/gals I confess that I'm damn scared of the potential harsh reaction each time I criticize this forum... [feedback]

My best suggestion is to keep posting what we feel correct here, according to the guidelines.
I also think that the way questions are asked here or on twitter, should take in consideration the situation of those being asked: the WLF isn't like Assange, controlling what is being asked, but clearly may decide not to reply when it comes to personal data or things already posted a million times.

"I'm trying to find the truth about all this situation"

Great. Me too. We all. We have experienced different situations about WL and Assange; about the forum; so we have different simpathies and/or informations on these entities.

I hate having doubts too. And I'm full of doubts on everything. That 99% won't be cleared, because, specially online, one doesn't see everything (no expressions, no body language, no real knowledge of the people).
So I get that you are willing to interact with concrete people, not just avatars.
But I please ask you to understand that the real people at the moment are being stalked and, starting from myself, I have no intention with all the risks of extremism we are facing nowadays in Europe and with Assange almost supporting ISIS, of revealing my actual face and position, putting at risk all my familiars.
I think this applies also to the other forum staffers or ex-staffers.
I was about going to London in summer 2012 to meet Emmy... after the idea was postponed and thank God it was, as in august/september 2012 she came out ranting with the WLF hijacked account the name of real people (not myself).
As the WL supporters community includes people that aren't afraid to publically share whoever's data just for revenge when they are angry, I don't think secure, in this moment, to become a public face for anyone here.
[And I still disagree on some posts of the WLF staffers on the stalkers' personal data here].

Let's remember that till he was not accused, also Julian Assange used to keep his destinations and personal data as hidden as possible, for security reasons, despite being a famous person.

@Kimono I hope you and everybody can keep using this site and also the twitter accounts to spread what we think.

Offline jujyjuji

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1204
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #71 on: January 20, 2015, 15:04:14 PM »
* the like is because despite i think a bit different, i feel what you want to say.

Offline Riney

  • Support Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #72 on: January 20, 2015, 15:40:12 PM »
@jujyjuji, It is not uncommon for any high profile person in the public eye, that agrees to interviews with journalist to dictate at least some of the content of an interview. The journalist usually does a preliminary interview with the subject or the with the subjects public relations agent and/or personal assistant to come to an agreement about the subjects to discuss. Having read Andrew O'Hagan's piece in the London Review of Books, about the ghost writing of Assange's autobiography, I got a keen sense of just how Assange controls the information about himself that is publicized with an iron grip.

  "I think the forum should help the supporters to have a clearer idea and opinion about Wikileaks, but now I think the forum is more about doubts and rumors. I don't like this."


 @Kimono,

 You want iron clad proof about everything, you want court tested documentation I assume. You will not find it here. This is not a court room with verifiable evidence. This forum is just a place to discuss things. I do agree that things have slipped into what you call "doubts and rumors" in the subject of WikiLeaks, but do not blame the forum for it. Julian Assange has been manipulating the information about WikiLeaks as an organization to the media for years on end now. I am sure he would tell you to your face that the only "true" information about him and WikiLeaks come from himself, and anything else that anyone would say about him are full on lies.

 I do not expect anyone from the outside to understand what Assange has done and continues to do to this forum. I think that the forum staff here have a unique experience all their own of what they experienced from Assange.

 Again, everyone should believe what ever they want. I will not provide any iron clad evidence of anything. I am just here to discuss observations and experiences. I disagree that information presented here on the forum would help any supporter interested in WikiLeaks decide what to think. I believe people arrive with their own beliefs already intact, they come here only to augment what they already believe. If they find anything that does not support what they already want to believe, they simply find a way to completely disregard it.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" Anais Nin .. and yet we must arm ourselves with fear

Offline kimono

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #73 on: January 20, 2015, 16:35:33 PM »
so all this mess between Wikileaks and the forum, it's not a psyop ?

it's a real epic battle ?... not a conspiracy ?

:)
"Les hommes qui ont vécu dans les laboratoires n'imaginent guère que les partis extrêmes" -
"Men who lived in the laboratories can hardly imagine anything else than extreme parties" (Louis Aragon, 1897-1982)

Offline J.C

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 866
  • la plume est plus puissante que l'épée
    • Snowden
Re: The Twitter account?
« Reply #74 on: January 20, 2015, 20:20:50 PM »
how does it come that you think this is a psyop?
I also see no "battle" just some people that want WikiLeaks to be their church with a unfailable leader.

there is no human without human errors, that makes us human - and criticising Julian Assange, WikiLeaks and co is not different from criticising the Government - and if there is something fishy about, you can discuss it here.
Assange fears the Pigeon.

https://goo.gl/QjIHja