Author Topic: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism  (Read 13256 times)

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Offline lascar

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Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« on: September 29, 2011, 23:27:11 PM »
Stalinism and Trotskyism are ideology, which are called socialism, but they have some differences.
First of all I want to talk about Stalin and Trotsky. Stalin was born in 18 December 1878 in Lose Besarionis dze Jughashvili. He was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union’s Central committee. When Lenin died in 1924 he was elected for a Leader of Soviet Union. He died in 5 March 1953. His idea is socialism in one country.
Trotsky was born in Lev Davidovich Bronstein in 7 November 1879. He was People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs. He died in 21 August 1940. His death is very dubious. Because he was died by a person, who is Ramon Mercader. He is a Stalinist Spanish people. Some people say that Trotsky was died by Ramon Mercader because Stalin gave order to Ramon Mercader. His idea is socialism in world.
And now, I can talk about difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism.
First of all Stalinism has some racist ideas. For example, Stalin murdered non-Slavic people although he is not Slavic. However, Trotsky wanted to create”Fourth International”, which indicates all of the worlds, but he did not do it because Stalin did not allow this.

Secondly, Stalin has patriotic ideas. Winter War is perfect example in this situation. However Trotsky does not have an idea like that because he wants to create World-Country. Do you think it is bad? If you think it is bad you have to consult which are good. In my opinion if Trotsky elected for a Leader of Soviet Union, this country will be alive now.

I think Stalin likes Hitler. Because Hitler has patriotic and nationalist ideas and then he attacked to Soviet Union because of his ambition. By the way Stalin attacked to Finland because of his ambition.
In my opinion Trotsky likes Lenin. Because he wanted to create “Fourth International” and then Lenin had already created “Third International”.

In conclusion, Stalinism and Trotskyism have differences. I think Stalinism likes National Socialism but Trotskyism likes Leninism.

What is your opinion ?

P.S : It is my first writing in this forum I hope you will like it :)
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Offline Barbara

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 03:35:10 AM »
This is very interesting. I don't know much about Trotsky and Stalin, but what you've written makes a lot of sense.

Offline lascar

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 21:43:09 PM »
This is very interesting. I don't know much about Trotsky and Stalin, but what you've written makes a lot of sense.
Do you like this topic ? :) I think this is very important point because some people believe that Trotskyism and Stalinism are similiar ideas but Trotskyism and Stalinism is very different
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Nomad112

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 21:52:45 PM »
Lascar, I know very little about the subject, but you are getting me interested in finding out more about the matter and then I might get back to you with an opinion ;)

Offline lascar

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 22:00:31 PM »
Lascar, I know very little about the subject, but you are getting me interested in finding out more about the matter and then I might get back to you with an opinion ;)
It is very important because when I said I am Trotskyist some people said that you must like Stalin because Stalin is communist.However Stalin has different ideas like communism should be applied in Russia, however I think communism should be applied in all world
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greekemmy

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 22:16:49 PM »
Congradulations on your first post lascar!

For members who wish to know more about Trotsky his full biography and ideological position can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky

As a major player in the Russian Revolution he has had a loyal following among communists both at the time when he lived and since. Especially appealing to young people due to his revolutionary feeling, his challenge of the authority, his international perspective and tragic persecution and ultimate demise.

I had a friend at school who claimed to be a Trotskist and he fashioned the round glasses and a goaty beard to go with it! I hope this trend has faded among Trotsky's followers but was quite the thing to do in the 80's. If there was one thing I remember from my friend's discussions was this idea of the 'perpetual revolution', but maybe lascar you can tell us more about this.  :)

Offline lascar

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 22:49:07 PM »
Congradulations on your first post lascar!

For members who wish to know more about Trotsky his full biography and ideological position can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Trotsky

As a major player in the Russian Revolution he has had a loyal following among communists both at the time when he lived and since. Especially appealing to young people due to his revolutionary feeling, his challenge of the authority, his international perspective and tragic persecution and ultimate demise.

I had a friend at school who claimed to be a Trotskist and he fashioned the round glasses and a goaty beard to go with it! I hope this trend has faded among Trotsky's followers but was quite the thing to do in the 80's. If there was one thing I remember from my friend's discussions was this idea of the 'perpetual revolution', but maybe lascar you can tell us more about this.  :)
Thank you greekemmy :) and yes it is true :) "perpetual revolution" is Trotskys' idea which means you have to make revolution when all-world become communist.He wanted to create "Fourth International" because of this situation but Stalin and their comrades did not allow this.By the way one Stalins' comrade murdered Trotsky and I think if he did not murder Trotsky, he will become a president of Soviet Union.Kruschev, who is after president a Stalin of Soviet Union, vindicated that Stalins' policy was wrong but the people of Soviet Union did not understand this situation.   
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Offline Barbara

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2011, 22:04:31 PM »
I've studied Marxism, and I've just started getting into the French philosopher/sociologist Henri Lefebvre and American geographer, David Harvey. They are both Marxists, as well, but with postmodern and ecological twist.

I'll see if I can't find some links for you. I believe their ideas may be very similar to what you call Trotskyism. ;)

Offline lascar

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 23:07:01 PM »
I've studied Marxism, and I've just started getting into the French philosopher/sociologist Henri Lefebvre and American geographer, David Harvey. They are both Marxists, as well, but with postmodern and ecological twist.

I'll see if I can't find some links for you. I believe their ideas may be very similar to what you call Trotskyism. ;)

Actually, I believe that Trotskyism is very similar to Marxism-Leninism idology and I can say Trotskyism is Neo-Marxism.Some older people said that Trotsky was Lenin's favourite person.I mean if Lenin could elect a president, he would elect Trotsky.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 23:10:35 PM by lascar »
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Offline nomo

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2011, 22:24:06 PM »
i actually had no idea about trotzkism yet.
but what you write does sound very biased, from a pro-trotzkij, anti-stalin point of view.

as far as i know, stalin did not hesitate to kill his own people just to get things done. he did not, unlike hitler, put only or even mainly jews/gypsy/foreigners in there. and as far as i can tell (based on facts like tank development, army deployment, etc), he wanted to start that second world war.
most probably: to conquer europe. and then, the world.

if he wasnt so unlucky that hitler attacked first, мы бы все говорили сейчас не по-английски (we would not be speaking english today).

i agree he was inhuman and the communism as he created it was inhuman as well, but he was for sure a better leader (when it came to war, survival, becoming a top nation in the world) for russia than trotzki - for the first became leader and the second got killed (after exile). plus, his system survived for almost 40 years after his death, with really no great or at least good leaders coming after him..

Offline lascar

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 00:17:04 AM »
i actually had no idea about trotzkism yet.
but what you write does sound very biased, from a pro-trotzkij, anti-stalin point of view.

as far as i know, stalin did not hesitate to kill his own people just to get things done. he did not, unlike hitler, put only or even mainly jews/gypsy/foreigners in there. and as far as i can tell (based on facts like tank development, army deployment, etc), he wanted to start that second world war.
most probably: to conquer europe. and then, the world.

if he wasnt so unlucky that hitler attacked first, мы бы все говорили сейчас не по-английски (we would not be speaking english today).

i agree he was inhuman and the communism as he created it was inhuman as well, but he was for sure a better leader (when it came to war, survival, becoming a top nation in the world) for russia than trotzki - for the first became leader and the second got killed (after exile). plus, his system survived for almost 40 years after his death, with really no great or at least good leaders coming after him..

Yes it is true I do not like Stalin and Stalinism. Please don't forget TROTSKY created Red Army. If he did not create Red Army, do you think Soviet Union would be created ? or How Soviet Union was created ? When we go to based on facts I agree with you because he did it well. But communism does not mean violence communism means peace communism means internationalism. If he did not murder Non-Russian people, I would not say I do not like Stalin.
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Offline Avalon

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2011, 21:04:14 PM »
I am very gratefull that you have catched up this topic, because i have never really thought about this topic and read me a little bit through Wikipedia and developed a small opinion. :)
As I have found out there are big differences between Stalinism and Trozskyrism, even if they both are based on Marxism-Lenism.
I think that one point is the permanent Revolution of Trotzki, which foresees a world revolution of the worker class, which is ruled by many worker councils.
Therefore Stalinism foresees the totalism, which tries to integrate in social relations and to form a new type of human.
So in my opinion I think that Trotskysim guides more to the comunism and Stalinism more to Totalism, which are both highly argumentated forms of governments.
For me it is a very difficult but also interseting topic, so I would appreciate it if you could me tell what inspires you on this trotskysim because for me it is another form of comunism and not appropiated for human, because everyone is equal.

When there are mistakes in my description of these forms of governments please do not hesitate to correct them. ;)
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Offline nomo

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2011, 18:48:51 PM »
as wikipedia tells me:
"The Council of People's Commissars decided to form the Red Army on 28 January 1918."
Trotzkij was involved, and while im not sure how much credits he deserves, i am sure that even without him, the army would have been created.

"At the beginning of its existence, the Red Army functioned as a voluntary formation, without ranks or insignia. Democratic elections selected the officers."
Now this must have been an completely ideology-blinded idiot to create such an "army", believing it could do *anything* in real combat situation..
So sorry, my opinion of Trotzkij fails to improve..

(By the way, Trotzkij, who was for "peace and internalism", created the Red Army; No contradiction seen?)

Stalin on the other hand did what had to be done for his goals, including massive industrialization, incredible military innovations, '37, etc, understanding that the world would not become communist only thanks to propaganda.
And while what he did was horrible from an ethical point of view, it all made sense from a strategic one.

-

Working class revolution sounds so very communistic (it indeed is), but such a revolution failed in germany.
It only succeeded in russia. which, at this time, did not really have industry, and thus, no working proletariat.
If Trotzkij believed in a working class revolution, russia was the wrong country to be in..

Offline lascar

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2011, 22:55:06 PM »
@nomo : Actually, I know Stalin had done his goals, e.g military, but It does not mean Stalin is great. I know that technological development. Anyway, I do not discuss Stalin's intelligences or whatever. I do not like Stalin's government. He had patriotic ideas he had unnecessary ambition. He acted as if he was national socialist murdered Non-Slav people and it is exciting Stalin is NOT Slav. I think you know when Stalin quit politics, I mean when Khrushchev acceded to Soviet Union, Krushchev argued Stalin's racist policies. I argued Stalin's racist policies... Not other policies...
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Offline leakingnow

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Re: Difference between Stalinism and Trotskyism
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2011, 02:39:25 AM »
Stalin and Hitler r both tyrants. All the same. Trotsky well I don't know much except Stalin assassinated  him in Mexico City using the NKVD or KGB or FSB.